1976pianoman's Posts

Here's an update to my situation: Verizon Wireless has a upper tier dept called the Verizon Wireless Correspondence Team.  I sent them a certified letter explaining what went on, what laws were broken by the Porter Ranch Verizon store and what I am now prepared to do if they don't take action. Within a week of the date they received my letter, I got a call. They were very apologetic. They insisted that they do not support this kind of sales behavior at the store level. They were very curious to know the details of what went on and who at the store took part in it.  They are sending me a FedEx return label to return the tablets. They are refunding all the tablet related charges, as well as holding the Porter Ranch store accountable to pay back the commission they made on the fraudulent sale, including some sort of additional investigation and action taken against the sales person and the manager that lied to support the sales person.  Oddly enough,  the manager perjured herself when she lied on the account notes about what went on with the sale when she was trying to defend the fraud.  The investigation determined that what she said did not in fact not happen based on a forensic analysis of the contract.   It was a straight out lie, just like the sales pitch.  There was no reduction in the monthly fees to compensate for the tablets, and even if there had been, by law - this has to be disclosed at the point of sale.    Verizon Wireless  at the corporate level is clearly a sound and ethical company that understands the law,  they just have some bad eggs at the store level where a climate existists in which uneducated, ignorant money driven sales associates don't even realize they are breaking the law. And this cancer seems to be infecting the lower level manangement as well.  I presume this will be the start of some changes and rules being made involving clear and full verbal disclosure at the point of sale as required by law.   There will be no corporate class action suit and no case or media blitz brough against the Porter Ranch store, at least not on my behalf.  If anybody out there was a victim of a dishonest sales pitch at a Verizon Wireless Store, send a letter ASAP to the follwing: Verizon Wireless Correspondence Team PO Box 5029 Wallingford, CT 06492

Hello Friends,  I've got to go silent now.  I thought I could continue to share and discuss here, but I can't.  I thought I was helping my case, but I am possibly hurting it if we proceed with legal action.  In fact, I am attempting to delete everything that was said on my part, including my other posts about my situation, yet it looks like I can't undo this.  Take care. 

Here's the more compelling question:  Do you really believe that we misunderstood what was being presented to us by the salesperson?  That we made a mistake in comprehending his sales pitch?   That he was being 100% clear about the monthly tablet charge and tax and/or activation?  Do you think when he clearly stated, over and over again, "there is no monthly fees, and no up front charges for the tablets, they are 100% free"  that he actually didn't actually say this?  Or are you capable of admitting  that you and the others are using deceptive sales tactics to push tablets? ..because the 3rd witness is direct testimony in regard to the practice of pushing tablets onto customers using deception at that very store by those very same people.  To make it worse for Verizon is that there are hundreds, if not thousands online claiming this happened to them too.  What a judge is going to ask is if this was a simple miscommunication and indeed the salesperson was not being deceptive, why couldn't the mix up be remedied the following day?  Why force the customer into a contract against their will?  The answer to this question cannot be, "well you signed a contract, it's too bad."  Because that response supports the dishonesty and if that's all that is said as a defense, it's very likely to fail in court, and it's definitely going to fail as a matter of popular opinion when we turn this into a viral news campaign.  Our local TV station Channel 7 has already expressed interest in doing a piece on this problem.  We'll see what popular opinion says when we give the public the real facts though TV and online media. 

Well, I'm not sure if what they are telling me is true.  I'll know in the days to come.  I agree with you.  One of my issues is that they should be handling this on their end.   What they told us was that if we went to another "Corporate" store, the return could be made.  They even gave us a specific store to go to.  I believe they are hoping this approach will work before they step in. 

We are being urged by corporate (who's actually being very helpful and cool about this whole thing) to take the tablets to another location that has a better customer service reputation.  According to what we were told, Porter Ranch is known for these dishonest practices,  yet some other locations are known for their customer service and honesty.  At another location they might be willing to take the tablets back and waive the fee.   This would divert a whole lot ugliness, drama and pain on both sides.  So I'm hoping this solution works out.  I'll tell you this, if some other store rescues this shit storm from developing, I will be sure to see to it that they as a store and as individual employees are rewarded.  I will take all this energy focused on destruction and turn it around to help those that help us. 

We have 3 witnesses including myself.  One is completley unrelated to us and is willing to testify in court, simply on the matter of principle.  She knows the people involved at the Verizon Store as she used to work there.  She was a valued employee, but left due to the dishonesty. 

It's not fun.  Like I said, I'm very much hurt by this.  It does not feel good.  I don't like to have to hire legal representation and do all this stuff I'm doing.  It sucks.  And it doesn't jive with the holidays at all .   Merry Christmas everybody and Happy Festivus for the rest of us.  God Bless. 

What's utterly mind bogging is this rational to rationalize this bait and switch tactic: "When verizon has a free phone offer people have no problem paying for service. But when it's a tablet that also has cellular service to the data plan that should be free also? Plus verizon should waive the activation fee of the line of course." Of course we don't expect the tablet to have no activation and no monthly fees.  It sounds too good to be true.  But that is what we were told.  We were lied to.  We kept asking, "are you sure there are no monthly fees for the tablets?!" "No" he kept saying.  We repeated over and over again,  "We don't want the tablets.  We have no use for them."  He said, "They are free.  You should just take them."  That is clearly a violation of the laws I mentioned earlier.  What you are saying is that based on logic, we should have known the salesperson was lying to us.  I really do hope that you guys are going to use that line in court.  It would be quite amusing.  What's also mind boggling is that the store will not make good on this.  Assuming it was just a miscommunication like the store is claiming, why not allow the customer to get out of the contract?  The reason is obvious.  Because the whole thing was a racket to begin with.  It's a bait and switch scam, and they are well aware they are doing it.  You guys know that you are using deception in the sales pitch to push the tablets.   Then you hide behind your weak, "you should have known and you should have read the contract"  excuse.   It's a very poor and psychologically under-developed mode and rational you are stuck in.   I encourage you to stick with it.  In fact, please stick with it - it will make our job in court so much easier.   

The edge plan "free" phone was indeed very clear.  It was obvious that we were financing the phone.  The salesperson did disclose that.   He didn't disclose the information about the monthly fees for the tablets.  In fact, he lied and said there weren't any.  The law doesn't care what the contract says, it cares what the salesperson says. 

I'm about to.  I'm giving them 14 days.  The reason why others have failed is because in the way of bait and switch laws, it's impossible to prove that the sales person lied when he/she was speaking to the customer about the contract. My case is different.  I have a witness to the whole sales pitch.  There were two of us present.  Imani our salesperson, even tried to separate us because he knew if only one person was present, he's protected.  It's a common tactic.  He failed at doing this.  He was very close though.  I also have very damning testimony from two previous employee from that very store that left because of these underhanded tactics.  I'd rather give Verizon the opportunity to fix this rather than forcing that upon them through legal means, local print and TV news and online viral campaigns.  It's just going to get really messy if I proceed down that path.  Thanks for the luck wishes.  This whole thing makes me sick to my stomach.  I've teared up over it twice I'm so upset.  And I cry over nothing!   

I've already consulted with a law firm whom is ready and waiting to take this, all on the basis of FTC and some civil violations.  We have not yet officially filed, so we'll see.  Verizon knows who I am, they know I have legal backing and they know I am a threat to a class action, so it appears my own posts here have been taken down by moderators.  So I came to this thread only to support the OP, letting him know he's not alone and that I am handling it.  I'm sorry for engaging others here.  I suppose that was bound to happen.  I didn't mean to come here to debate law.  I'll leave that up to my legal counsel.   Take care all.   and Merry Christmas. 

Who told you this?  Did you learn this at the Verizon Store?  Because this is the ignorance that is driving this racket and will end up being the death of them.  This is a bait and switch scam.  It's something the FTC and City Attorney's office will be all over, once they are made aware of it.    I have a witness that worked at the Verizon Store whom left because of this dishonesty.  She was smart enough to know that they were wrong.  The problem is at the store management level.  They are sadly misinformed as to contract law and the FTC laws protecting consumers from what they are doing.    The violation of Business and Professional Code 17500, 17505 and Civil Code 1770 not only nulls the contract, it also opens the door for legal action and potential jail time and fines.   As a salesperson, what you say to the customer has to jive with what the contract states.  You cannot use subterfuge and misleading statements to get a customer to sign a contract.  The fact that the contract was signed is meaningless from a legal standpoint.  Yes, the store can enforce it, but if you get an attorney and/or the FTC and City Attorney involves the the truth will be painfully bestowed upon the store.

This is absolutely untrue.  What happened here is called bait and switch fraud.  It is illegal.  It's when what is coming out of the mouth of the sales person does not jive with the contract.  There are laws protecting consumers against these kind of underhanded sales tactics.  The problem is sales people like you gracecake who are so steeped in their own deception of themselves and others that you actually believe the lies and rationalize the tactics. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Google "verizon tablet scam" and you see what happened to me and my mom, and what apparently is a wide spread practice at the Verizon stores -  which should be illegal.  We added a second line and a new iPhone to an existing iPhone contract.  The sales person Imani (Porter Ranch Verizon Store) convinced us to accept two free tablets.  He insisted they were 100% free. The whole think felt wrong.  I have never felt like this at a Verizon store before.  This salesman was like a shady used car salesman.  I was concerned, so I asked him if he makes commission.  He said that he does not make commission.  He twisted the facts around creatively as to appear to present the tablets as having no monthly charge.  We didn't even want the tablets! We have no use for them. When we got home, I reviewed our plan online and it turns out we are being charged $10 X2 per month for two years for these two tablets.  Less than 12 hours later, this morning, I returned to the Porter Ranch Verizon store to return the tablets, and they continued to try to spin ** about how Imani discounted our rate in order to pay the additional $20 per month for the tablets.   Per my phone  conversation with Verizon Wireless Corporate, this was not true and was just more sales spin.  They also told me that indeed Imani and the other sales staff make commission and are heavily compensated and awarded for sales performance.   So he lied to me about that.  Why would he lie unless he knew he was taking advantage of us?  Corporate told me that the manager of the store should take back the tablets and not charge me.  The manager refused to take back the tablets without charging us $150 for a restocking fee ($75 X2).  I refused to pay this.  I would have been satisfied and we would have kept Verizon as our carrier and kept the new iPhone 6 we purchased if they would have just taken the tablets back and waived the $150 restocking fee.  The manager kept saying my mom signed a contract and she would not waive the restocking fee.   My mom was totally schooled by this sales guy who causally got her to sign multiple times.  She's got poor eyesight and could not read the contract even if it was presented, which it was not.  She simply singed her name on a iPad like *** device.   We trusted that they were shooting straight with us.   She specially asked Imani, "ARE YOU SURE THERE IS NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE FOR THE TABLETS?"  He insisted there was not. Yes, you typically would not sign a contract without reading the fine print, but I would not expect to have to look out for myself like that at Verizon, nor did my mom, a loyal Verizon customer for over 10 years.  The Verizon Store has turned into the Wild West of dishonest salesmanship.   I dropped off the two tablets and my new iPhone on the check-out desk after they refused to budge.   The manager insisted I could not do this.  I just left them there and walked out.  I am reporting this to the Federal Communications Commission, the Federal Trade Commission, the BBB, the Los Angeles Times and any other news outlet that will publish my story and I'm presenting this to the City Attorneys Office.  I am also going to do my best to spearhead not only a local public service campaign against the Porter Ranch Verizon Store, but also a class action suit against Verizon Wireless.  This is happening to a lot of people.  Look it up online. My mom and I are just going to go to AT&T instead and refuse to pay the Verizon contract.    Now my mom's credit will be hurt because of this nonsense.  All she was trying to do was buy me a Christmas gift and she ends up getting taken advantage of at Christmas time.  The Verizon Store in Porter Ranch, especially the management there should be ashamed of themselves. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a followup post to my previous post about the bait and switch "free" tablet scam being perpetuated by Verizon Wireless Store sales people. As it  appears I very well may be moving ahead with taking action on this, I am going to post updates here as a way to document my progress and to share the details as to this situation. Account Number: [removed] I've spoken to the corporate call center now twice.  The second time it went to an upper tier management level.  They are conducting an investigation which apparently involves them calling the Porter Ranch, CA Verizon Store to get their side of the story.  Yet I was told that ultimately the option to waive the restocking fee falls on the store.   They told me that the store should have just waived the fee, but they don't have control over that.  That's a major problem for me and opens this up to a potential corporate fraud class action situation - the fact that at the corporate level they are not stepping in to deal with this. I'm not sure that this "investigation" will be of any avail.  In fact, it may very well have just been lip service they were giving me over the phone. Verizon corporate reported to me based on the notes on my account that the Porter Ranch Verizon Store overnight shipped the 3 devices I left with them back to me (!?).  This clearly indicates they did not take me seriously as to what I'm prepared to do.  It was recommended to me by corporate that I go to another specific Verizon Store nearby in an attempt to return the two tablets and get the restocking fee waived.  They implied that different stores have different attitudes and I may get lucky at another location.  Once again, I am not happy about Verizon corporate's inability and unwillingness to handle this themselves.  This should not fall on the customer to have to run around town right before Christmas to beg another store to comp a restock fee that stemmed from fraud perpetuated by a different store.  This is nonsense. Thanks to some online networking, I was able to locate and speak to a previous employee of the Porter Ranch Verizon Store.  She went into quite a bit detail over this bait and switch scam they do.  In fact, she left the company because of the dishonesty at the store and the Porter Ranch store's management's support of the dishonest business practices. Something I did not mention before is that there is a discrepancy on the sales tax that we paid.  It appears that quite possibly there was a hidden charge (tablet activation?) presented as a second local sales tax.  We seemed to have paid $35 extra for something.  I am not yet sure what this is, and I will consider this important and needing to be addressed, but secondary to the tablet issue. I have consulted with legal counsel but have not yet retained them.  I may have to retain them if I file suit.  I have also been in contact with Birka-White, a class action law firm in Danville, CA as I believe this may call for a class action suit based on all the victims of this scam I have located in just one day.  It's shocking a company as large as Verizon Wireless has gotten away with this for so long.  I can only speak for California law as for now, I am only approaching this on a personal level locally and not a federal level.  I'll allow the latter to be handled by Birka-White if they choose to proceed.  As for CA law goes, here are the violations thus far: (the following codes have been edited for relevancy pertaining to my case) Business and Professional Code 17500:  17500. It is unlawful for any person, firm, corporation or association, or any employee thereof with intent directly or indirectly to induce the customer to enter into any obligation relating thereto, or to make any statement concerning services (products) which is untrue or misleading, and which is known, or which by the exercise of reasonable care should be known, to be untrue or misleading. Business and Professional Code 17507: 17507. It is unlawful for any person, firm, corporation or association to make a representation (statement) pertaining to more than one article of merchandise or type of service, within the same class of merchandise or service, if any price set forth in such claim or representation does not clearly and conspicuously identify the article of merchandise or type of service to which it relates. Civil Code Section 1770: 1770. (a) The following unfair methods and/or deceptive acts or practices undertaken by any person in a transaction intended to result or which results in the sale or lease of goods or services to any consumer are unlawful: (13) Making false or misleading statements of fact concerning reasons for, existence of, or amounts of price reductions.   (14) Representing that a transaction confers or involves rights, remedies, or obligations which it does not have or involve, or which are prohibited by law.   (16) Representing that the subject of a transaction has been supplied in accordance with a previous representation when it has not.   (19) Inserting an unconscionable provision in the contract. Any violation of the provisions of these sections is a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding six months, or by a fine not exceeding two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500), or by both that imprisonment and fine. Most of these violations fall on the salesperson but the manager was in violation of 1770(a)(13), 1770(a)(14) and 1770(a)(16) when I went to return the tablets when she spun more lies about what went on, so even the management at the Porter Ranch store has directly broken the law.  My minimum expectations are that the "investigation" that is being conducted result in the truth being exposed and that action be taken against the Porter Ranch Verizon store. That I be able to return the two tablets without restocking fees, and that my share plan be reassessed to be certain I am receiving a fair deal based on current prices and promotions.  If my minimum expectations are satisfied within 14 days, I will not declare war against Verizon Wireless and not pursue this any further.  If my minimum expectations are not met,  I am going to proceed with the following: Return to the Porter Ranch Verizon store with a vigilante posse both to serve as witness and to spread the word in the store to other customers.  I will once again leave all three devices, refuse to pay any fees and walk out once we are done.  I will cancel the entire plan and never make another payment again, fully accepting the potential bad credit marks (which will be dealt with via legal action).  We will take our cell phone business to AT&T Wireless. File an official complaint with the Federal Trade Commission. File a complaint with the Better Business Bureau . Contact the City Attorney's Office. Retain local legal council and file suit against both the Porter Ranch Verizon Store and Verizon Wireless. Proceed with other law firms with the goal of launching a Class Action suit against Verizon Wireless.  Setting up an an initial exploratory online forum site for victims to register and share their story. Work with the Los Angeles Times and other local print news outlets to publish a series of op-ed and editorial pieces about the wide-spread Verizon bait and switch "Free" tablet scam, with a focus on the Porter Ranch Verizon Store. Launch an online viral campaign via social media sites to spread the word about the wide-spread Verizon bait and switch "Free" tablet scam. Write an article regarding the wide spread Verizon bait and switch "Free" tablet scam and publish it at huffingtonpost.com, the verge.com and arstechnica.com and proceed to offer the article for free publication to any and all online content providers/sites.  I will continue to post here the developments as they unfold.  Based on what I am reading online about their response to this issue,  I am not expecting Verizon corporate to step in and do the right thing, for me/my mom nor on a larger scale.  So as my family and friends are telling me, maybe I was chosen to be a victim and to take on this role, as I am the one that will not stand for it and commit to the work required to hold them accountable. Personal information removed as required by the Message was edited by: Admin Moderator