Re: Galaxy Note 4 Android 5.1.1 Update - VZW FAIL
Ann154
Community Leader
Community Leader

Wrong. Verizon Wireless doesn't touch the code.  Verizon Wireless only tests it to certify verify it doesn't break the network. Samsung has several models of phones to modify and only so many people to write to code. Samsung started likely on the easiest phones to modify and have to least amount of Certification and Testing involved.

I'm most definitely NOT a VZW employee. If a post answered your question, please mark it as the answer.

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Re: Galaxy Note 4 Android 5.1.1 Update - VZW FAIL
jiff777
Enthusiast - Level 2

I have no interest in getting into a personal debate with you. You may want to research your previous statement. I'm sure you were sincere, although misinformed. Don't cloud the issue with semantics. Once again, my statements were directed towards Verizon and Samsung, as to why they can not even keep their customers informed. I have had direct conversations with Samsung support and their response was, it had been in Verizon's hands. You for some reason have directed your responses directly toward me. I do not desire  a legacy of cyber bullying nor do I do like the anonymity of the internet and will not hide behind it. I apologize for airing my frustrations in a thread that you even came across. I hope you have a nice weekend. I am done with the Verizon community forum and will go back to the XDA Developer's forum. I would express my feelings to Verizon over the phone, however, I don't have a lot of time waiting on the phone to only be disconnected once again. Once upon a time, Verizon had a reputation of outstanding customer service but that went the way of copper wires.

Re: Galaxy Note 4 Android 5.1.1 Update - VZW FAIL
RandomKoreanGuy
Enthusiast - Level 3

This is unfortunately one of the frustrations in dealing with Verizon. Everyone knows the carriers all drag their feet with updates they have any kind of control over, which is why Apple took direct control of their own updates. They would probably abandon updates completely if they knew they could get away with it (just look at those unfortunate Windows Phone users). Google pushes direct updates to the phones they have direct control over (the Nexus phones), but unfortunately because of the nature of Android as an open platform, they don't control all of its splintered variants from Samsung, HTC, LG, etc. Granted, Samsung was surprisingly fast in pushing 5.1.1 and hopefully will also be fast in pushing out 6.0, but again we go back to the original issue of Verizon dragging its feet in certifying the release.

At this point, when it comes time to get a new phone, I may well go with a Nexus or iPhone, because I'm really tired of the glacial pace at which Verizon does things, which is unfortunate because I've always liked my Samsung Note phones. The whole issue of their pricing structure is a separate thing. Supposedly they recently announced that all grandfathered unlimited plans (like mine) are getting a price hike in November. I've been off-contract for years now, so we'll see what happens. At this point, my frustration level with VZW is very high (as are a lot of people's) and even though I've been loyal for over a decade plus to them, my patience is honestly really wearing thin. It's no secret that the 5.0 release for our phones dramatically reduced their usability and reliability. Unless they're skipping 5.1.1 and going straight to 6.0, I don't see why it's taking so long. At this point, the only way to keep my phone usable is to reboot it every now and again (usually once or twice a day) to clear the memory.

If any decision makers are actually reading any of these posts, let me clarify my point. You're not doing the company's image any favors. All this does is solidify the notion in people's minds that the less control the carriers have over the phones, the better. Apple has complete and total control over their updates and they never encounter issues like these. Verizon has long blocked Nexus phones from their network (until the Nexus 6), but I haven't really seen any issues like this with them either. But lo and behold, issues galore with Samsung phones and surprise, we're all still waiting on the updates that will fix our phones nearly half a year on.

Re: Galaxy Note 4 Android 5.1.1 Update - VZW FAIL
Ann154
Community Leader
Community Leader

Yes, Apple has control over their updates. What you don't see is they WAIT until all the carrier testing process across the globe is completed BEFORE they release their updates.

You think Google is fast? Their latest update is still rolling out in waves. It was released to the public a little over 2 weeks ago and it is still working on reaching those Nexus devices via the OTA for those people who don't bother flashing it themselves.

I'm most definitely NOT a VZW employee. If a post answered your question, please mark it as the answer.

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Re: Galaxy Note 4 Android 5.1.1 Update - VZW FAIL
Tidbits
Legend

I just want to say... Apple does not do as they want. If you ever done ADC you will know carriers are involved in the process. When Apple finishes with one device they don't release it. They just give it a version bump to match unfinished devices. Once they are all finished they push it out all at once which gives you the idea they are timely.

Re: Galaxy Note 4 Android 5.1.1 Update - VZW FAIL
RandomKoreanGuy
Enthusiast - Level 3

Two weeks would be a literal miracle. 5.1.1 has been rumored to be rolling out for months. My cousin who has a Nexus 6 has had it on his phone all summer, while our supposed flagship phone languishes. The delay has been so long, Google has had time to release 6.0 Marshmallow, meaning we're two updates behind. As for Apple, the delay is minimal. You can volunteer to beta test new versions of iOS and it does not ever take half a year for Apple to push out their updates from the completion of their beta testing until final release to all users. My complaint is not with the fact that they have to certify releases. My complaint is with the absurd amount of time it takes them to do it. All you need to do is skim any forum of Verizon Android users and you'll see clearly that most owners are resigned to the fact that they probably won't get Marshmallow until midway into next year. This is neither acceptable nor tolerable when it comes to tech devices given the speed at which this industry moves.

Re: Galaxy Note 4 Android 5.1.1 Update - VZW FAIL
Tidbits
Legend

The problem is people don't see exactly when manufacturers submit or have the update sent back for whatever bug.

The problem lies with people expect carriers to take blame for whatever goes wrong. If they let manufacturers push out whatever they want you can bet most will blame the carrier for what went wrong. You can see it on T-Mobile forums with their BYOD. Why isn't this working? It worked on AT&T... Etc etc. I been saying we should follow Europe's model and it is met with heavy resistance because they know from that point forward its up to the manufacturer and carriers are completely hands off.

Yes Apple spends a long time with their releases. You don't see their private beta process if you do a simple sign up. There's months prior to the public beta which radio/RIL, kernel, and FCC testing is complete and they don't touch those sections for reapproval. Public beta is for simple bug fixes.

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Re: Galaxy Note 4 Android 5.1.1 Update - VZW FAIL
Tidbits
Legend

6 months by the manufacturer on their own right before carrier involvement. Often you see Samsung for example spend 4-7 months to push out an update for their unlocked devices.

FYI HTC, Motorola, and Sony actually admitted multiple times carriers are not involved as much as the general public believes and they don't touch code like people believe.

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Re: Galaxy Note 4 Android 5.1.1 Update - VZW FAIL
RandomKoreanGuy
Enthusiast - Level 3

Don't get me wrong, I don't actually put all that much faith in Samsung either. Regardless, we're all suffering here. My phone ran beautifully on 4.4.4, but terribly on 5.0.1 and it's taken me a while to tweak it to the point that it runs semi-reliably most of the day. (The battery life, though, is irreparably awful no matter what I do.) I do blame Samsung too, but Verizon doesn't get off with a free pass either. They have a known history of holding up updates for other phones, so they have no leg to stand on in claiming innocence. None of us have any reason to throw VZW a bone of good faith and fellowship, especially not in the name of throwing the responsibility squarely onto Samsung. I'll be the first to admit that this multi-layer system Android OS updates have to go through is bogus and convoluted, but other Samsung phones and even Notes from other carriers have the update, whereas we do not. So I point the finger at Verizon.

Re: Galaxy Note 4 Android 5.1.1 Update - VZW FAIL
Tidbits
Legend

Perceived history remember what I said before.  People will blame them regardless if they are hands off or on.  You can't deny that.  That's where you are wrong when other carriers have their devices updated...  Go visit their forums and you will hear about it.  T-Mobile Note 4 doesn't have 5.1.1 either.  the S4 has not been updated since last year, and the S3 is 1 version below other S3's out there.  Sprint has a lot of problems with their updated devices and have somewhat taken the hands off approach(very little testing) and they are getting flack every day about how the update broke their devices and expects Sprint to replace or fix the problem.  They still have devices not updated yet as well.

The problem lies with the fact people don't see what happens AFTER the carrier gets the update to test.  If it fails it goes back to the manufacturer.  It will go back and forth until carriers are comfortable with the update.  Like I said they are in a catch 22.

See if you can find a copy of the AOSP project Google did with Sony(I used to have a copy, but I can't find it).  You'll find out on average carrier testing takes 1 month.  Around that same time Google went quiet about blaming carriers wholeheartedly too.  They also started to roll out a change on how they share their code and came out with a PDK to shorten the process to get updates quicker.  IF the process averaged 1 month then why is it being updated 3-4 months on average after Europe?  Doesn't that make you go hmm?

With the way the FCC rules are shaping out to be, and the way things are going away from subsidization.  People will get a rude awakening when they realize carriers was the least of the problems like they perceived.  Personally I would rather buy unlock and unbranded devices... Now if only they would make them with Verizon bands(Block C rules forces Verizon to accept them).

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