Re: Kin TwoM: Review, FAQ, Q&A, troubleshooting, etc.
jhickman
Newbie

I'm having the same problem  kibbles35 was having -- that the phone won't ring out loud, even with the ringer volume turned up. I've had the phone less than a week, and have been frequently connecting and disconnecting the audio jack, to the earbuds and to my car stereo's aux input. Resetting the device did fix the problem for now, but I'm fearful that my pattern of use will get it back into that state.

 

I also noticed another strange  behavior, presumably related. I was checking that a ringtone was selected (it was), and noticed the preview also wouldn't output any sound. I'd had my music paused, and unpausing it caused the music AND the ringtone to be output. Pausing it again stopped both. Why would the play/pause/stop state of the Zune software cause the whole system to be muted?

0 Likes
Re: Kin TwoM: Review, FAQ, Q&A, troubleshooting, etc.
fisharefriends
Contributor - Level 3

jhickman, i'm sorry to hear this but i don't use the zune player often so i couldn't comment on if this happens to me or not. If you could share if this problem worsens, or is consistently a bug, i'm sure many other readers would appreciate it.

 

RenaRay:

Yes, i will say that the cases do help out in preventing the volume buttons from being pushed. Also, i'm sure you've read this, but i filed down my volume buttons to stick out about half of what they do when you buy the phone, and i will say i haven't accidentally bumped them since. Regarding the case, this is the one i bought and can verify it prevents the volume button from being pushed:

http://www.amazon.com/Black-Rubber-Protector-Verizon-Microsoft/dp/B003R1E9LA/ref=pd_bxgy_cps_img_c

 

Regarding large bugs/inconveniences/flaws: i will combine 2 separate lists into 1: the ones that are biggest to me (some of them may be small, but they are ones that bug me because of how i use my phone), and the ones that i've read around that would be the biggest, assuming i used every function of the phone (which i don't; when was the last time i needed to forward a text?)

 

My list:

-volume buttons don't lock

-alarms do not vibrate-only; had to use a work-around of turning system vibrate on and adding a 'silence' ringtone which would in turn only vibrate.

-somewhat slow navigation; the hardware is definitely fast enough to run a phone like this; however, microsoft decided to add very poor coding and navigation to the phone, so it has delays here and there. When not in a rush, it is fine and isn't too slow, but when you are trying to go quickly, especially with using the camera and changing settings quickly, this problem propogates everywhere and can quickly get on your nerves if you are coming from a faster phone. If your old phone was slow like mine, you may actually feel this is an improvement and it won't bug you.

-no contact groups; if you want to send mass texts, good luck. you have to add the contacts one at a time.

-doesn't show how many text characters; while it automatically breaks texts into multimessages if it is over 160 characters, i still think it should show the # characters, if you don't want to go over and send multiple texts, you can't really know. It is the worst when you send a message, just to have the period (.) create a  2nd text that is sent.

-the 'shift' and 'caps' keys register a bit slower than all the other keys. All the letters and such register as soon as you push them, but if you text quickly and use caps and shift, you may have to slow down when pushing them cause if you go quickly, it won't register that you pushed the button.

-there is no on-screen keypad; i don't need an onscreen full keyboard, cause that defeats the purpose of having the slide-out one, but to not include at least the traditional keypad to text with is pretty lame. Even for quick texts, you have to open up the phone to type the message. Along the same lines, there is no predicative texting of any sort, which may be why they skimped out and didn't add the feature of having the on-screen keypad for texting. They already have the interface and all, the keypad when dialing numbers, they just made it so it only works when dialing out a call.

-font color: on some of the screens, the font color ends up being dark red on black (i have the red color theme selected; there are blue, red, pink, and green background settings); you can imagine how hard that is in sunlight. I wonder why they didn't jsut stick with white text on black, or dark on light colors, vice versa.

-poor form-factor design; the reverse-fillet design on the back of the phone makes it want to slide out of your hand, not stay in it; apparently they didn't try the design before finalizing the design. it is comfortable in the hand, however; the trouble is getting it to stay there. if you apply a skin, or add a case, or some other solution to give it a more tactile texture, then it should be fine.

-does not have many of the 'general' features and settings that most feature phones of verizon's do. It can't give alerts to missed calls/texts, doesn't have many customizeable settings, etc.

-no on-screen back button; it is kind of a stretch to reach the back button at the bottom of the phone while trying ot balance it and not drop it; i will admit though, i have adjusted by now so this is quite a bit of a smaller problem than it used to be.

-when the phone is locked, on that lock screen: while the time is displayed in the lower right corner, it does not display the date. Very annoying! I used to always quick-check the date on my phone by just pushing a button, but now to check the date you have to unlock the phone, and then click on the dashboard. Actually, you can wait for the clock portion to minimize and then still click on the 'dashboard' while the phone is still locked and see the date/other things displayed in the dashboard (battery, volume, signal, etc), but the problem with this is it takes about 5 seconds for it to minimize. That is a very long time to wait just to be able to check the date. It doesn't sound long and makes me seem impatient, but once you try it, you will notice you don't want to wait 5 secs so you will just unlock the phone to be able to tap on the dashboard instantly. I wish there was a setting to always have the entire dashboard displayed upon the lock screen, but microsoft didn't make it very user friendly, certainly not letting the phone settings be customizable.

-crowded interface/ugly favorites screen; i wish the favorites page was all the same sized boxes; instead, they decided to jumble them around the place, with different shape and sizes of boxes.

 

Overall list

-slippery texture of the battery case; it is very hard to hold. I applied the skinomi skin to it, and if you have a case it also eliminates the problem, but if you use it just as-is, you may find yourself dropping it.

-somewhat spotty wifi connection; i personally haven't had problems, but i've read around that some people have been having issues connecting to certain networks. The Kin phones are not very compatible when it comes to connecting to all routers.

-Zune has issues with the headphones and recognizing when they are actually in or when you disconnect; people have had it still think headphones are in tehre, and no sounds play because the phone still thinks headphones are plugged in.

-can't re-send texts/select individual texts; this is the same problem as not being able to forward them (although i don't forward texts much) and delete them individually

-not all texts are time-stamped. If you send/recieve texts in close proximity to the last one sent/recieved, it won't show when it was. So if you have a long-standing quickly-replied (0-15 min between texts is my guess), the only one that is time-stamped is the one that started the convo.

-no way to directly turn off 3G directly; workarounds are present, by blocking data in various forms, but there is no direct 'wi-fi only' setting or something of hte sort.

-browser is somewhat limited; however, you have to keep it in perspective. Compared to smartphones, it is very primitive and can't run most things that smartphone browsers can. Compared to other feature phone browsers, this one is top of the line.

-no backup assist

-no apps or downloading games or ringtones, etc; can't connect to vcast, or whatever else verizon has default to other feature phones. (ringtones can be added, but only through sending a MMS to yourself)

 

I don't want to make this too long, since you are looking for a quick list, so i'll stop here. I'm sure i forgot something and left something out, simply because many of these types of issues are ones i grow to live with, or find workarounds to, so hopefully they won't be too big of cons to you. I would suggest this phone for you, especially if you are limited to a non-data plan phone (feature phone). If you are getting data, i would say stay away from this phone; by getting a data plan, you are eligible to get 'smartphones', which are far better than any feature phone, including the Kin. But i think the Kin is much much better than any other feature phone out there. If you have any other specific questions, ask away and i'll try to answer them. Good luck!

0 Likes
Re: Kin TwoM: Review, FAQ, Q&A, troubleshooting, etc.
jhickman
Newbie

Thanks, fish. I'll report back if I can get the phone into that state again, and keep track what I do to get it there.

 

Also, thanks for the link to the cover. I'm definitely getting that. On Saturday, I got comfortable on the couch, and all of a sudden my phone vibrated from my pocket a few times. I guess my pocket was pushing the down volume button. That's quite annoying. As a computer engineer, I know it's hard to get every little kink out, but some of the issues with this phone seem like general sloppiness in the design. It makes me sad to know that simple fixes would make it so much better. But it's by far the best feature phone I've had. (I've never owned a smart/data phone, or I think my expectations would be higher.)

0 Likes
Re: Kin TwoM: Review, FAQ, Q&A, troubleshooting, etc.
BranHen
Enthusiast - Level 3

Fisharefriends - I spoke to a Verizon Wireless salesperson today at an official Verizon store who told me that "soon there will be updates for the Kin TwoM that will address most of these issues..."

 

Now, I wasn't born yesterday, and I know that a salesperson selling phones is capable of telling me something to get the sale...

 

But, maybe she believed this to be true...

 

My question to you is, being the most comprehensive/expert source online for the Kin TwoM, do you think there's any hope that this is actually going to happen?

 

Having owned the phone for a few months, researched extensively, etc., is there any reason to believe that Verizon/Windows have any intentions of releasing any updates for this phone?  Or are they just trying to burn through their existing inventory so as not to lose any investment in the devices?

 

If this phone is on the way out, could that mean that Verizon/Windows are planning a feature phone that can take all the best aspects of this phone and combine them with all the standards that Verizon customers have come to expect from the most basic feature phones?  If so, that phone would be a feature phone world beater...

 

Fingers crossed for either!

0 Likes
Re: Kin TwoM: Review, FAQ, Q&A, troubleshooting, etc.
fisharefriends
Contributor - Level 3

I'm no expert, you must have me confused with someone else haha. But i will tell you, i don't think i have any more information than the Verizon representative does. If what they said was true..that is wonderful news and i'm positive every single one of us will be happy to recieve the long-awaited updates. Like jhickson said, these bug fixes aren't exactly hard to fix, especially for senior microsoft software engineers who have been at it for years. In my experience (which is somewhat limited nevertheless), the hardest part to any sort of computer programming is finding the problems; we as users have done this for them. I'll iterate this to Verizon, Microsoft, and anyone who has any sort of investment into product development and sales, this is the importance of sample/live testing, and that process cannot be skimped out on.

 

That being said, you can't completely discredit the Verizon representative. In reality, most Verizon reps are very helpful and know their information, unfortunately it is those few that provide us with faulty information that taint their reputation. I can't tell you if it was true or not, because only that representative can tell you if they made it up, or if it was a credible source/rumor, but i will tell you i am looking forward to some sort of update, hopefully encompassing the issues that all of us have experienced with the Kin phones.

 

I don't know if they are solely clearing warehouses; my impression is no, because by now, they would've been out in my opinion. Verizon keeps mum about these details, but i wouldn't blame them, after all, it is a business and no one wants to outright reveal their intentions and business 'tactics'. You want my opinion, i don't think they know what they want to do, or at least they didn't, and they were relying on sales figures and phone sales reception to determine whether to push it or not. And I think they have gotten it; whether they do anything about it and update and push strong to gain control over the feature phone sector is anyone's guess. But this is all just speculation, on my account. I do wish Verizon/Microsoft were more transparent about things like this though, especially to their 'valued' customers, but hey, what's my opinion have to do with it, they have bigger fish to fry, right? We can only hope that isn't their attitude. All i can say is, most the time, rumors get out through online sources (forums and such) before they are officially announced; do i think that is how it is supposed to work? Nah. But that is just my way of saying the Verizon rep knows about as much as we do, for the better or worse.

0 Likes
Re: Kin TwoM: Review, FAQ, Q&A, troubleshooting, etc.
elisa1213
Newbie

fisharefriends, I know that several people have already thanked you, and I want to do so personally.  I purchased the KIN TwoM mostly because of your review, and I couldn't be happier.  I have had it for almost three days, and it is exactly what I need.  The camera is great, and I love being able to manually sync my email when WiFi is available.  I have blocked all services except for pic/vid messaging and premium messaging (mostly for myxer.com...another thanks for that!), and I am acquiring no data charges.  You are awesome!

0 Likes
Re: Kin TwoM: Review, FAQ, Q&A, troubleshooting, etc.
BranHen
Enthusiast - Level 3

Ok...I'm down to 2 feature phones and I'm not sure which direction to go in.

 

-Samsung U370 (Only at Costco, other retailers, etc.)

-Kin TwoM

 

The U370 is basically the Reality with no data plan requirement.  It's got all the customization options that the Kin TwoM desperately needs.  However, it doesn't have the classy look of the Kin TwoM and it feels slightly too light and possibly cheap in the hand.

 

The Kin TwoM is a sleek looking phone with awesome memory capacity, fast processing, and great camera.  However, it's lacking some of the most basic, standard features that feature phones from 3 years ago came with.  And there may not ever be any updates to remedy these issues leaving the user to seek work-arounds for numerous basic functions.

 

I've played with both and it's just a hard call right now- if I could take the UI and all the basics of the U370 and put them in the Kin TwoM, it'd be a go.

 

There was one thing I wasn't happy with on the Kin TwoM that stood out- I sent a video text from the Verizon owned Kin to my enV2 and the video quality on the enV2 end seemed to be far inferior to the videos I receive from phones with much worse cameras (other enV2's, enV3's, etc.)

Now this could just be because the Kin has to dumb down it's video before it can be sent over the network.  If that's the case, I can stomach it.  However, if the video quality is just that bad, then I don't think it holds up to the U370, by a slight disadvantage.

 

If the video quality is good, does anyone know if it can be pulled off the phone and uploaded to a PC?  Or a Mac?  Same question for pictures.

 

The reason I ask is, what good are awesome quality pics/videos if you can only have them on your phone?

 

So, what do you guys think?  Kin TwoM or Samsung Reality v2.0?

0 Likes
Re: Kin TwoM: Review, FAQ, Q&A, troubleshooting, etc.
fisharefriends
Contributor - Level 3

elisa, you're welcome. I'm glad i can help otehrs out there.

 

BrenHan, it seems you've read through this thread, so you should be pretty informed on the Kin 2m. If not, i'd suggest reading through it, there is a lot of information in it. Lots of reading, but you may find your answer. I posted on your other thread (linked below), so between the 2, good luck on finding a new phone!

http://community.vzw.com/t5/KIN/Dog-Fight-Kin-TwoM-vs-Samsung-U370/td-p/478538

0 Likes
Re: Kin TwoM: Review, FAQ, Q&A, troubleshooting, etc.
rich215
Enthusiast - Level 3

Im in the same boat as BrenHan......can't decide which of these 2 phones to go with.  Thanks for all your info fisharefriends! 

 

fish, I could not get to the link you provided below.  It made me sign in and then came up with the message.

Which thread is it?

 

Sorry, you do not have sufficient privileges for that action.

Please click the Back button on your browser.

0 Likes
Re: Kin TwoM: Review, FAQ, Q&A, troubleshooting, etc.
fisharefriends
Contributor - Level 3

I tried looking for it too, and i got the same message. BrenHan originally had his exact post created in a separate thread; however, it appears it has since then been removed. I sure hope Verizon hasn't removed it, or perhaps moved it on accident. I'm not quite sure what i wrote in it, other than reinforcing that it appears BrenHan seems to have done sufficient research ont he 2 phones, and the factors all boiled down to choosing between 'more features', or more options/less bugs/traditional interface. I personally wasn't aware of the u370 phone; I prefer to buy directly from Verizon because it causes less trouble down the road, say if you have issues and need a replacement, etc. When, if ever, was this phone directly sold by Verizon? I googled it, and it seems to be fairly similar to the type of phone i was looking for.

 

The other thing i addressed in his otehr post was that you can indeed transfer pics/vids taken from the Kins to a computer. They do auto-compress/reduce the pictures/vids because the high resolution creates too large of a file to transfer, but by connecting it to a computer using a usb cable (comes with the phone; same cable as the charger), you can use Zune software to transfer them, and it is pretty effortless and smooth in my opinion. Think iTunes and iPods/other apple products with iTunes.

0 Likes